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N0st's avatar

Interesting thoughts!

On the lie detector part, my view on this (as a person loosely qualified to have opinions on this lol) is that I think we will have transformative changes to society long before we have technology like what is imagined about lie detectors. Specifically, I think there are assumptions about how the mind works which make it seem like this is a more attainable invention than it would be. For example:

- The idea that the mind contains a single running monologue that matches the output of a person's speech, and to find out if they are "really lying" all you need to do is check if their inner mental monologue matches their speech output.

- The idea that statements that a person would agree to are all stored in a person's mind somewhere.

- The idea that the mind contains a list of facts about the world with assigned strengths of beliefs a la "Tractatus" Wittgenstein.

I think the vision of a lie detector is that you could extract these kinds of linguistic information from a person's mind. But I don't think the mind is structured in the sort of linguistic way that would allow this. I think the mind is structured more as a loose mess of associations (A brings up B brings up C), and the linguistic output we observe is a sort of chaotic Rube Goldberg type construction on top of this mess of associations which makes it look like the mind makes way more sense than it does. Similar to "Philosophical Investigations" era Wittgenstein, I think there are many "beliefs" that people would agree to if prompted by someone that are not actually stored anywhere in the mind. They are "just in time compiled" let's say, when someone asks you the question or solicits the behavior.

I think something approximating the imagined lie detector technology might someday exist, but I think our society is likely to look fundamentally completely different by that point.

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As to the part about the role of scholar-official intellectual elite types in our short term future society, I think that's a pretty interesting question and close to my heart lol. I think there is probably some sort of symbiotic relationship where the intellectuals either arguing for or against the System as it is justify it. I've been reading some books about Asian history lately, and it brings to mind this thought I had while reading about the importing of Chinese ideologies into Nara/Heian era Japan, how they kind of imported all these ideologies at once--both the ones that prop up the system (Confucianism) and the ones that claim to surpass and transcend the system (Buddhism, Taoism), which really served to prop up the system at a different level. The idea that came to my mind was that this combination of ideologies and counter ideologies was probably even more potent in perpetuating the hierarchy/social order than a single ideology would be. But anyways, maybe the elite will keep us around to justify their existence even if we do it just by arguing against the system lol.

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I guess the other general strand of wondering how the future would be in the long term is the possibility that our AI descendants just kind of live their best life and treats us the way we treat apes or other animals--either ignoring them, or putting them in like an enriched environment that meets their psychological needs while being totally artificial.

Thanks for writing!

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RS's avatar

I'm not sure that the following is likely to be true.

">There would be few false convictions and a much higher conviction rate for criminals (even if criminals have a first amendment right to refuse the truth machine, their witnesses testimony will be more readily believed). The flow on effects for how people view the criminal justice system is hard to know. On one hand, people might feel safer and more certain wrongdoers would be punished. This could lead to a more merciful justice system. On the other hand, with uncertainty banished from the criminal justice process, the vengeful might feel like one of the few important reasons to “spare the rod” was gone, and they could indulge their vengeful desires without concern that the convicted might be innocent."

That testimonies are more likely to be believed is certainly true. But it doesn't then follow that the convictions gravitate towards their 'correct' rate, simply because testimonies may not themselves be correct. As another commenter suggests, highly confident delusions would pass a lie-detector test, which is on the more extreme end of confident falsehoods. On the less extreme end is eyewitness testimony. We know that eyewitness testimony is riddled with non-trivial errors and falsities. A working lie-detector might eliminate a propensity to mislead or deceive on the stand, but it wouldn't eliminate confident beliefs in untruths.

As a result, juries might be more likely to agree with eyewitness testimonies even when they are wrong, which could push the false conviction rate upwards.

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