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Yosef's avatar

Re civilization:

It seems related to a line of thought Scott Alexander touched on in his review of Njal's saga.

He says that it belongs in the canon because it teaches that you have to sacrifice a bit of viscerally obvious justice in order to have a civilization.

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Auros's avatar

Re: a just society rendering people more "child-like", another way to say this is that _domestication_ is the process of changing a species so that it retains more of its juvenile state -- more playfulness, more ability to learn and adapt, but also less of the tendencies towards violence and territoriality that were useful to the ancestral form in adulthood -- and the first species we domesticated was ourselves. One long-term goal of civilization is completing that process -- gradually stamping out the ancestral impulse to murder the out-group to steal their land and resources, by way of rendering that impulse unnecessary and maladaptive. The science-fiction-y spin on this domestication idea is David Brin's "Uplift".

As John Adams put it: "I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain."

See also: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/toward-a-shallower-future

I do think there is some merit to the view that we need to maintain the ability to defend our peaceful society against outside threats, including through the use of violence. But we should want our military class to have a deep love of what they're defending. We need more Marcus Aurelius types -- military leaders with a deep appreciation for literature, history, and the arts. The Hegsethian notion that we want a military that is maximally brutish, that conceives of itself as having Manly Virtues, and sees things like art and laboratory research as emasculated or feminine, is unstable. Such a military would have no appreciation for what they're supposed to be protecting. That way lies an eventual military dictatorship.

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