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Ironic Age Protestant's avatar

"Our society has the capacity to ensure there is literally zero involuntary poverty- e.g. by acting as an employer of last resort. We have not done so and this is a titanic crime."

This is not true. The government creating make-work jobs in order to give poor people something to do so that they could earn wages would not cause there to be more of the things that poor people want to buy with their money, so the material scarcity that causes them to lack things would not change, the government would merely be redistributing things and covering it with a 'jobs program.'

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RS's avatar

How do you respond to the objection that the state does provide the means of subsistence via welfare programs? My response is simple: Such provision is generally selective, insufficient, and tied to conditions that undermine dignity. The first two points are easily targeted by your arguments: if welfare doesn't cover your case, then there's simply no provision of means of life; and if it isn't enough to cover your needs, then it doesn't count either.

The third point is less obvious, but I think it does establish grounds for TAD. Let us assume that there is universal welfare sufficient to meet the needs of all who receive it, but that it is tied to a set of indignifying conditions. For the sake of argument, let's make these conditions far worse than those typically imposed by Centrelink in Australia: mutual obligations, daily check-ins, surveillance of expenses, controlled spending, mandatory drug tests, invasive medical checks, etc. (Essentially the program of policies imposed by the NT Intervention.)

In such a situation, is there a right to steal to achieve dignified subsistence? I think so. Put differently, there is a right to opt out of universal welfare and prefer theft instead where the conditions attached to that welfare degrade your dignity. As you put it, the basic right here is for dignified subsistence – which is a step further than mere subsistence.

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