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Daniel Greco's avatar

I'm very sympathetic to almost all of this, but I was a bit surprised at the very end when you got to pain. I think of the functional role of pain as being tightly connected with embodiment and homeostasis. If you've got a body that needs to be at a certain temperature, and which is vulnerable to various sorts of damage, you need some set of signals for telling you when that body is in danger, and how to move it to get out of danger. I think of pain as playing that functional role. That suggests to me that if you've got an intelligence that's trained from the start without a body, there's no strong reason to think it's going to have anything that plays a functional role similar to pain in embodied organisms. Maybe if you hooked up some LLM-style architecture to robot bodies, and did a whole lot of extra training to get the software to recognize and avoid damage to the body, then you'd get pain, but that's pretty different from the pathway we're on for now.

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Auros's avatar

Funny you should mention Fred Jelinek (though you mis-spelled his last name, there's no C before the K). He was a mentor to me, and was more or less directly responsible for the opportunities I had for internships at IBM (with the human language research group at the TJ Watson lab in Yorktown Heights, which he founded) and Microsoft, over the summers after my junior and senior years of college. (Then I started grad school at the School of Information at Berkeley, but promptly dropped out, because who wanted to be in grad school, rather than at some startup, in 1999?)

I'm one of those people who (shudder) believes that LLMs are not, by themselves, a direct gateway to true AGI, although I think it's quite possible we'll have AGI in my lifetime. I think the Boston Dynamics terrain-navigating bots are probably a key ancestor to the eventual true AGIs, as well as the more sophisticated humaniform bots we're seeing now. To get to true AI we need something that is tethered to reality, in a way that makes self-awareness meaningful. You need an entity that is capable of modeling itself in relation to reality -- the stuff that doesn't go away if you stop believing in it -- making predictions, and then updating its mental model based on the results of those predictions. A full AGI is going to include something LLM-ish as an interface, but it's going to have other specialized modules for other purposes. Have a read some time about Figure.ai's Helix model, which splits a "fast" propriosense / motor control system, with a "slow" reasoning and planning system. I suspect a true general AI that can move around and interact with the world is going to end up replicating _something_ like the modular design that's observable in human and animal brains. The overall architecture may have some big differences from us -- it might be even more different from a human than an octopus is. But I suspect there will still be recognizable analogues due to "convergent evolution". (If you're going to have vision, you have to _somewhere_ organize and parse the visual input.)

I mostly think about whether the current generation of LLMs is useful for solving a given problem in terms of the question: Can the model provide enough structure that the prompt can stimulate an appropriate chunk of the network to produce an appropriate response. That part of the model will exist if the model was already trained on examples of such responses. Exactly how similar the responses need to be, versus how much the model can make "leaps of logic" to answer related-but-novel questions, is an interesting open question.

In any case, I have for instance found that the general purpose LLMs like Claude are quite good at pointing you to the correct IRS publication to answer a fairly complicated question about the US tax code, and usually can just directly give you an answer (although it's good to go double check it against the publication). I suspect a model specifically trained on a corpus of publications about tax law (both the actual code and official IRS writings, as well as analyses from tax lawyers) would do even better. Some friends of mine are working on training models to answer questions about building / zoning / planning codes around the US.

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