> but when the time does come to be verbally cruel to someone you should be very cruel.
I'm having trouble picturing justified life-ruining verbal cruelty. Cruelty itself, (callous disregard, or pleasure in another's suffering) seems to me to be an evil thing, one that debases the practitioner, regardless how much they might think someone deserves it.
I think there's two different concerns you might have here.
1. Your concern might be "why be cruel- when cruel means rejoicing in that someone's hurt- why not just do the hurt to them, but with a sorrowful heart." My reply is that's not what I meant by cruel. By cruel I don't mean rejoicing in pain, I just mean deliberately hurting someone psychologically, and trying to wound them as much as possible.
2. Alternatively your concern might be "why inflict serious harm on others". Let me give an example of the kind of person who might need harm inflicted on them. Kay Ivey Governor of Alabama oversaw the death of a man innocent of what he was executed for. It was pretty well understood that he was innocent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Nathaniel_Woods
I and some other people on Twitter cursed her name, called for God to whither all the pleasures of her life and make everyday an unending torment of sickness and misery, and told her that she was going to burn in hell in agonies unimaginable by the worst sadist for an eternity of eternities.
The point was to cause her fear and uncertainty, to damage her resolve, use her Christian beliefs as a wedge against her, and through causing her suffering, in some small way, maybe, million-to-one shot, reduce the likelihood of another governor doing something similar in similar circumstances. Now the odds that I actually caused her even a moment's discomfort? Very small! Maybe about one in a hundred thousand. But if I could have left her psychologically broken, I would have, and I think I would have been right too. If you disagree, I'm happy to hear you out, but to me it seems pretty clear that some people need to be stopped.
This sounds like a very strong stance on the Sinosphere. Even then it is standing strong and (bearly) functioning, at least in Japan and Taiwan. Hong Kong has entered a state of Fear now, and China has no honor. How is the problems of honor culture comparable to the Fear culture of the third world (Least Developed Countries)? What about the counter-intuition of western Justice/Guilt cultures (see: "Social Justice Warriors", "White Guilt")?
> you shouldn’t say something explicitly and directly cruel to someone unless you would be okay with those words ruining their life ... mid-level cruelty is rarely, if ever, a good idea
I think you might be confusing what are sometimes called *shame* cultures with honour cultures. As I understand the term honour culture, Hong Kong, Taiwan and China have never been honour cultures, at least for thousands of years, and Japan is no longer an honour culture, and even when it was, was only an honour culture for a specific class.
An honour culture has many features, but the absolutely indispensable and definitive feature is that it is okay to fight someone in response to them dishonouring you
> but when the time does come to be verbally cruel to someone you should be very cruel.
I'm having trouble picturing justified life-ruining verbal cruelty. Cruelty itself, (callous disregard, or pleasure in another's suffering) seems to me to be an evil thing, one that debases the practitioner, regardless how much they might think someone deserves it.
I think there's two different concerns you might have here.
1. Your concern might be "why be cruel- when cruel means rejoicing in that someone's hurt- why not just do the hurt to them, but with a sorrowful heart." My reply is that's not what I meant by cruel. By cruel I don't mean rejoicing in pain, I just mean deliberately hurting someone psychologically, and trying to wound them as much as possible.
2. Alternatively your concern might be "why inflict serious harm on others". Let me give an example of the kind of person who might need harm inflicted on them. Kay Ivey Governor of Alabama oversaw the death of a man innocent of what he was executed for. It was pretty well understood that he was innocent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Nathaniel_Woods
I and some other people on Twitter cursed her name, called for God to whither all the pleasures of her life and make everyday an unending torment of sickness and misery, and told her that she was going to burn in hell in agonies unimaginable by the worst sadist for an eternity of eternities.
The point was to cause her fear and uncertainty, to damage her resolve, use her Christian beliefs as a wedge against her, and through causing her suffering, in some small way, maybe, million-to-one shot, reduce the likelihood of another governor doing something similar in similar circumstances. Now the odds that I actually caused her even a moment's discomfort? Very small! Maybe about one in a hundred thousand. But if I could have left her psychologically broken, I would have, and I think I would have been right too. If you disagree, I'm happy to hear you out, but to me it seems pretty clear that some people need to be stopped.
> Honor cultures are bad
This sounds like a very strong stance on the Sinosphere. Even then it is standing strong and (bearly) functioning, at least in Japan and Taiwan. Hong Kong has entered a state of Fear now, and China has no honor. How is the problems of honor culture comparable to the Fear culture of the third world (Least Developed Countries)? What about the counter-intuition of western Justice/Guilt cultures (see: "Social Justice Warriors", "White Guilt")?
> you shouldn’t say something explicitly and directly cruel to someone unless you would be okay with those words ruining their life ... mid-level cruelty is rarely, if ever, a good idea
This does sound like the impact bell curve from In Pain Sight, that moderate ambition requires the most concealment. https://swellandcut.com/2018/09/26/in-plain-sight/
I think you might be confusing what are sometimes called *shame* cultures with honour cultures. As I understand the term honour culture, Hong Kong, Taiwan and China have never been honour cultures, at least for thousands of years, and Japan is no longer an honour culture, and even when it was, was only an honour culture for a specific class.
An honour culture has many features, but the absolutely indispensable and definitive feature is that it is okay to fight someone in response to them dishonouring you