Maybe I’m the only one who will appreciate it but Jacobin posted the following article and I thought the comments on Twitter were incredibly revealing:
The modern American Left has become a deeply pessimistic, anxious and misanthropic movement. That is partially because of the people they attract and the internal culture they maintain. I don't know if this is fixable, though I do think it is a major obstacle for socialism in the US-- the left is really unproductive at achieving its goals! (By left here, I mean leftists/socialists)
This, and there's no telling how many people are real and how many are bots. So many of these canned responses are easy for trolls to put out as engagement bait.
Simple answer: people are so powerless in their ordinary life the only thing that gives them any thrill is screaming at magazine articles that weren't written specifically for them
I actually don’t think this is distinctive, at least within the left. See, for example, Matt Yglesias’ responses, which are often this but from the dumbest socialists rather than the dumbest tankie-hating libs
But really I think if you look at Ben shapiros comments flooded with nazis you’ll see this on the right as well. The only people I’ve never seen cringe posting are the center right. They put their cringe in NYT op eds
Building socialism is hard and unsexy. Complaining about different types of socialism online (even if they don't have a chance of becoming reality) is easy and makes these people feel like they're accomplishing something.
As for greed- do you thing leftwingers or rightwingers are more likely to forego more lucrative occupations for working in an NGO because they believe in the cause?
Did those Jacobin replies look humble to you? Something's not adding up here.
I suspect the correlation turns negative once you get to the extreme left, or perhaps the honesty-humility instruments are flawed (e.g. leftist like to self-present as victims at the mercy of forces beyond their control)
"As for greed- do you thing leftwingers or rightwingers are more likely to forego more lucrative occupations for working in an NGO because they believe in the cause?"
Socialists seem generally against NGOs. That's why they critique e.g. MrBeast philanthropy -- "the government should handle it", "in a just world this wouldn't be a problem", etc. Socialism is also associated with favoring citizens over foreigners. Socialists rarely discuss foreign aid, or the fact that their favored government programs will create even more luck for people who are already lucky to be born in rich countries. Socialists like Bernie Sanders tend to be against immigration, so as to protect the wages of native workers.
Socialists accuse billionaires of cloaking their self-interest in the guise of altruism, yet seem unaware of the possibility that they might be doing the same thing. We're all human. We're all prone to self-serving biases.
Comments sections are always terrible, except that one comments section on the Guardian crossword puzzle that a bunch of old men used to stay in touch and plan chess picnics in the park.
Whatever their other sins you can't judge the commies on this basis
I just think people like stating their opinion and this is something you get now all over social media in comments sections about most subjects. It’s an opportunity to state an opinion, or vent spleen, it’s because everyone has phones now, it’s combative in nature.
I was actually thinking about taking out a subscription to Jacobin myself funnily enough. Maybe that’s because I’ve just watched Yanis Varoufakis “Eye of the Storm” doc. Have to say it’s making an impression.
Jacobin comment threads are like this because every online comment thread is like this. Online comment threads are all insane, because only insane people leave comments online.
Is it just Twitter? It's a place designed for nastiness. Face to face conversations, even on matters much more contentious than brunch, are kinder & more joyous.
when I had a blog in the early 00s called dolebludger, so long ago, I got the advice that as a bloke, i should just do what they do in rural Western Australia and go to the pub. At the time I said if I went to a pub I would get killed. These days I'd add that as someone who is mildly not-autistic —I would get killed. It's unlikely, looking back at undiagnosed me, I could get work going there even if I avoided death. Sure socialising is important for networks, but being dead does not help.
This applied to most pubs in Australia in the 80s BTW. So stuff 'em.
If pub dominates that socialisation them I am fine with being unemployed, let all those drunk extraverts do the work.
Everyone is drinking less, and in Aus, if only because of the pokies.
I do not think drinking more will increase socialisation, even if I avoid death by extraverted drunks
I don't think pubs are the social hubs as in the old days. Just an anecdote ... .
The local pub near me underwent a huge renovation. Yet it still has few customers. It survives because of the pokies, which do not encourage socialization. Next to it is a coffee shop\restaurant. People line up to get in. I like the change because I lost two friends to alcohol, it is strongly associated with violence including domestic violence, increases suicide risk, and is a carcinogen. Coffee though, in moderation, has health benefits.
Gyms promote more socialisation than pubs. Another issue is the excise and tax on alcohol, ~70% of the cost. Very expensive way to socialise. Any day now I'm expecting the govt to announce an excise on coffee.😊
of course!!! thank you for explaining gyms to me... I've seen them pop up over the decades as I ride my bike to work... so its an extravert thing, or peeps who need structure to exercise/socialise.
yes cafes
when I was on the dole I could not afford alcohol, now I have a full time job I might go for a counter meal & a beer twice a year... pretty much the same
That, and with the intersectionality pyramid, one of the easiest ways to raise your status (especially if you're not BIPOC and/or a woman) is to have a mental health diagnosis. So stuff like autism and anxiety tends to get bragged about. The part of the leftist brain that starts with 'using the n-word is bad' gets extended to cover fat-shaming and exercise being bad because it's unfair to sick people.
It's like neurasthenia being fashionable among Victorian women (and I think you probably have an equivalent social phenomenon in some ways).
I sort of wonder if this is part of the reason protests against Trump are so weak this time around--everyone 'self-cared' themselves into 'just being too tired' and so on.
The modern American Left has become a deeply pessimistic, anxious and misanthropic movement. That is partially because of the people they attract and the internal culture they maintain. I don't know if this is fixable, though I do think it is a major obstacle for socialism in the US-- the left is really unproductive at achieving its goals! (By left here, I mean leftists/socialists)
In my experience, this is typical of comments sections anywhere that doesn't moderate all comments and block trolls.
This, and there's no telling how many people are real and how many are bots. So many of these canned responses are easy for trolls to put out as engagement bait.
I laughed out loud at this. You nailed that mentality. This is what people who complain about "wokeness" should look at, not basic inclusivity.
They do. See this essay for instance: https://paulgraham.com/woke.html
Simple answer: people are so powerless in their ordinary life the only thing that gives them any thrill is screaming at magazine articles that weren't written specifically for them
I actually don’t think this is distinctive, at least within the left. See, for example, Matt Yglesias’ responses, which are often this but from the dumbest socialists rather than the dumbest tankie-hating libs
But really I think if you look at Ben shapiros comments flooded with nazis you’ll see this on the right as well. The only people I’ve never seen cringe posting are the center right. They put their cringe in NYT op eds
Man i've been to Muslim countries where people are more open to drinking alcohol than the Jacobin comment section
I think this is part of this general societal pivot into a bastardized form of body culture
Building socialism is hard and unsexy. Complaining about different types of socialism online (even if they don't have a chance of becoming reality) is easy and makes these people feel like they're accomplishing something.
The only reason a person stays a socialist is if they're grumpy and resistant to any sort of opposing argument. If you're open-minded, you'll see that socialism (yes, "true socialism") consistently fails: https://iea.org.uk/publications/socialism-the-failed-idea-that-never-dies/
Yep. Envy, greedy and narcissism and relatively low verbal IQ all come together with it.
Verbal IQ predicts egalitarianism: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289624000709
Humility predicts leftwing ideology:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886910001182
As for greed- do you thing leftwingers or rightwingers are more likely to forego more lucrative occupations for working in an NGO because they believe in the cause?
"Humility predicts leftwing ideology"
Did those Jacobin replies look humble to you? Something's not adding up here.
I suspect the correlation turns negative once you get to the extreme left, or perhaps the honesty-humility instruments are flawed (e.g. leftist like to self-present as victims at the mercy of forces beyond their control)
"As for greed- do you thing leftwingers or rightwingers are more likely to forego more lucrative occupations for working in an NGO because they believe in the cause?"
Socialists seem generally against NGOs. That's why they critique e.g. MrBeast philanthropy -- "the government should handle it", "in a just world this wouldn't be a problem", etc. Socialism is also associated with favoring citizens over foreigners. Socialists rarely discuss foreign aid, or the fact that their favored government programs will create even more luck for people who are already lucky to be born in rich countries. Socialists like Bernie Sanders tend to be against immigration, so as to protect the wages of native workers.
Socialists accuse billionaires of cloaking their self-interest in the guise of altruism, yet seem unaware of the possibility that they might be doing the same thing. We're all human. We're all prone to self-serving biases.
Comments sections are always terrible, except that one comments section on the Guardian crossword puzzle that a bunch of old men used to stay in touch and plan chess picnics in the park.
Whatever their other sins you can't judge the commies on this basis
The comment section for Idea Channel on YouTube was a haven of elevated yet accessible discussion
I just think people like stating their opinion and this is something you get now all over social media in comments sections about most subjects. It’s an opportunity to state an opinion, or vent spleen, it’s because everyone has phones now, it’s combative in nature.
I was actually thinking about taking out a subscription to Jacobin myself funnily enough. Maybe that’s because I’ve just watched Yanis Varoufakis “Eye of the Storm” doc. Have to say it’s making an impression.
Jacobin comment threads are like this because every online comment thread is like this. Online comment threads are all insane, because only insane people leave comments online.
Is it just Twitter? It's a place designed for nastiness. Face to face conversations, even on matters much more contentious than brunch, are kinder & more joyous.
If you're seeing an odd pattern like this, it could be bots.
Modern socialists are whiny losers like that in real life too.
when I had a blog in the early 00s called dolebludger, so long ago, I got the advice that as a bloke, i should just do what they do in rural Western Australia and go to the pub. At the time I said if I went to a pub I would get killed. These days I'd add that as someone who is mildly not-autistic —I would get killed. It's unlikely, looking back at undiagnosed me, I could get work going there even if I avoided death. Sure socialising is important for networks, but being dead does not help.
This applied to most pubs in Australia in the 80s BTW. So stuff 'em.
If pub dominates that socialisation them I am fine with being unemployed, let all those drunk extraverts do the work.
Everyone is drinking less, and in Aus, if only because of the pokies.
I do not think drinking more will increase socialisation, even if I avoid death by extraverted drunks
I don't think pubs are the social hubs as in the old days. Just an anecdote ... .
The local pub near me underwent a huge renovation. Yet it still has few customers. It survives because of the pokies, which do not encourage socialization. Next to it is a coffee shop\restaurant. People line up to get in. I like the change because I lost two friends to alcohol, it is strongly associated with violence including domestic violence, increases suicide risk, and is a carcinogen. Coffee though, in moderation, has health benefits.
Gyms promote more socialisation than pubs. Another issue is the excise and tax on alcohol, ~70% of the cost. Very expensive way to socialise. Any day now I'm expecting the govt to announce an excise on coffee.😊
of course!!! thank you for explaining gyms to me... I've seen them pop up over the decades as I ride my bike to work... so its an extravert thing, or peeps who need structure to exercise/socialise.
yes cafes
when I was on the dole I could not afford alcohol, now I have a full time job I might go for a counter meal & a beer twice a year... pretty much the same
You're all going to find this offensive, but I think it has a lot to do with it.
https://www.richardhanania.com/p/womens-tears-win-in-the-marketplace
That, and with the intersectionality pyramid, one of the easiest ways to raise your status (especially if you're not BIPOC and/or a woman) is to have a mental health diagnosis. So stuff like autism and anxiety tends to get bragged about. The part of the leftist brain that starts with 'using the n-word is bad' gets extended to cover fat-shaming and exercise being bad because it's unfair to sick people.
It's like neurasthenia being fashionable among Victorian women (and I think you probably have an equivalent social phenomenon in some ways).
I sort of wonder if this is part of the reason protests against Trump are so weak this time around--everyone 'self-cared' themselves into 'just being too tired' and so on.
I feel the saddest for the person who shocked that they would recommend a bar while we’re in the midst of a pandemic. 😭 It’s 2025 my guy